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L1 Wars: $ETH vs $AVAX
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L1 Wars: $ETH vs $AVAX

The blockchain scalability debate

Aylo
Nov 22, 2021
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Welcome to the ninth Alpha newsletter. We curate alpha for you. Thatโ€™s it; thatโ€™s the newsletter.


Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair CT, where we lay our scene

From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.

There was plenty of intense debate this weekend regarding Ethereum and Avalanche.

This Alpha update looks to provide a few opinions from both sides, as well as some useful resources regarding blockchain education and scaleability towards the end of the newsletter. Strap in.


3AC in the firing line

Alpha is aware of proceeding tweets which Zhu Su from 3AC responded to, but we want to focus on the technical debate. Itโ€™s probably fair to say Zhu kicked off the wider discussion with a strong attack on Ethereum. ๐Ÿ”บ = support for Avalanche.

Twitter avatar for @zhusuZhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu
Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

2,286 Retweets14,981 Likes
Twitter avatar for @zhusuZhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu
Ethereum culture suffers massively from the Founders Dilemma. Everyone is already far too rich to remember what they originally set out to do. Perhaps a bear market is needed to remind them, or perhaps we must build elsewhere, but this is what it is--nothing new under the sun.

November 21st 2021

421 Retweets5,694 Likes
Twitter avatar for @zhusuZhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu
Reason why prev tweet has 4k likes in 1hr is bc users are livid that they're promised a vision of the future, then told that they have to pay $100-1k per tx to enjoy it, and then get told some tales about how they should've been smart enough to buy ETH at $10.

November 21st 2021

279 Retweets4,988 Likes

Cue the developer response to the VC.

Twitter avatar for @lightclientsู‹ @lightclients
Zhu, you are very disconnected from what is actually happening at the protocol. There is no โ€œFounders Dilemmaโ€ - only really smart people working on hard problems while trying to safely upgrade a $500 billion chain.

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

63 Retweets811 Likes
Twitter avatar for @lightclientsู‹ @lightclients
Essentially the entire core go-ethereum team has worked tirelessly for 5-6 years and continues to sprint forward on the merge. Same with the core eth2 teams - same people, 2-4 years later, still working day in and day out to bring a secure proof-of-stake network to the world.

November 21st 2021

8 Retweets226 Likes
Twitter avatar for @lightclientsู‹ @lightclients
Imagine spending multiple years on what you think is the right path for Ethereum, only to discover a better path and then start over and work for 3 *more* years to do it right:
EIP-1011: Hybrid Casper FFGEthereum Improvement Proposals (EIPs) describe standards for the Ethereum platform, including core protocol specifications, client APIs, and contract standards.eips.ethereum.org

November 21st 2021

3 Retweets137 Likes
Twitter avatar for @hudsonjamesonHudson Jameson @hudsonjameson
100% this. It's not like VCs are generally in the trenches working on protocol level code or even monitoring it for that matter so I'll dismiss Zhu's opinion. Fees are too high and I hate that it's pricing people out. The issue is our popularity grew faster than we could scale.

ู‹ @lightclients

Zhu, you are very disconnected from what is actually happening at the protocol. There is no โ€œFounders Dilemmaโ€ - only really smart people working on hard problems while trying to safely upgrade a $500 billion chain. https://t.co/9LdcWn5Vqf

November 21st 2021

11 Retweets190 Likes

The founder of Uniswap has joined the chat.

Twitter avatar for @haydenzadamshayden.eth ๐Ÿฆ„ @haydenzadams
No issue w/ L1s that prioritize immediate scaling over decentralization, many users want this But this is a real bad take Incredibly insulting to everyone working on ETH 2.0 and L2s Especially from someone who has gained extraordinary wealth off the backs of Ethereum builders

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

276 Retweets2,055 Likes

The founder of dYdX, one of the most successful ETH L2 dapps, cautiously agreed that Zhu had a point.

Twitter avatar for @AntonioMJulianoAntonio | dYdX ๐Ÿฆ” @AntonioMJuliano
[risky tweet of the day ๐Ÿ™ˆ] This is said much harsher than I would put it, but I somewhat directionally agree Ethereum has not executed over the past few years. I canโ€™t think of a single 10x useful improvement Ethereum has made in the past *4 years* ๐Ÿ˜•

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

105 Retweets733 Likes

In amongst all of the debate there is probably a lesson here.

Twitter avatar for @HaymanLironLiron Hayman @HaymanLiron
The different reactions to Antonio vs. Zhu really shows that it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

November 22nd 2021

8 Likes

Marc from AAVE had a different take.

Twitter avatar for @lemiscateMarc "Crypto Scum" Zeller ๐Ÿ‘ป ๐Ÿฆ‡๐Ÿ”Š @lemiscate
I love how ppl that "Abandoned Ethereum" mostly use and chill EVM networks. (Avax c-chain, BSC, FTM, harmony, polygon and so on what they are? Ethereum tech.) Ethereum is the standard.

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

23 Retweets226 Likes
Twitter avatar for @lemiscateMarc "Crypto Scum" Zeller ๐Ÿ‘ป ๐Ÿฆ‡๐Ÿ”Š @lemiscate
The truth hurt but in this debate no one really wrong. Ethereum is a victim of its own success and high gas fee on L1 is a feature of network security. But real ppl are priced out. So fortunately, other chains played right the quick and dirty hack of big block PoS system

November 21st 2021

1 Retweet35 Likes
Twitter avatar for @lemiscateMarc "Crypto Scum" Zeller ๐Ÿ‘ป ๐Ÿฆ‡๐Ÿ”Š @lemiscate
The main difference is the timeframe. Ethereum L1 try hard to build to last "forever" Quick and dirty hack PoS is not sustainable and their chain grows exp and cost of having a node is exp too. After a few months of high usage this kind of stuff appear
BSC is a lost cause ยท Issue #553 ยท binance-chain/bscGuys, seriously, WTF. This is a blockchain with supposedly billions of value, yet it is governed and developed like the project of a stoned teenager. I've rarely seen something handled so unpro...github.com

November 21st 2021

4 Retweets37 Likes
Twitter avatar for @lemiscateMarc "Crypto Scum" Zeller ๐Ÿ‘ป ๐Ÿฆ‡๐Ÿ”Š @lemiscate
Ethereum on their side don't have the luxury or choice to be a "disposable" transition chain. They have to be L2-centric but it takes time. Arbitrum is here today but with training wheels. Optimism is kinda here and also starkware proven their worth all just need a bit more time

November 21st 2021

2 Retweets27 Likes

Zhu follows up

Zhu admitted the emotions may have affected his choice of words and looked to clarify his earlier statements.

Twitter avatar for @zhusuZhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu
Want to soften this and say abandon is the wrong word. Was heat of the moment. I'm sorry. There are great teams working on scaling Eth on L2. Would've preferred to see eth1x roadmap. Also would've preferred focusing on users rather than holders welfare in upgrades.

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

Yes I have abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

November 21st 2021

190 Retweets2,302 Likes

Certain members of the ETH community werenโ€™t too pleased with the โ€œapologyโ€.

Twitter avatar for @FroggyFrogsterSwagtimusPrime.eth ๐Ÿฆ‡๐Ÿ”Š๐Ÿผ @FroggyFrogster
Zhu's apology isn't an apology at all. He's still claiming Ethereum upgrades are made to enrich holders. It's insulting, it's despicable, it's gross. Someone in this space for so long should know you can't just increase an L1's block size to scale.

November 21st 2021

16 Retweets271 Likes

Is Avalanche the answer?

Moving onto the topic of Avalanche, there is many who are of the opinion that Avax blocks will eventually run into the same problems that ETH is suffering from right now.

Twitter avatar for @iamDCinvestorDCinvฮžstor @iamDCinvestor
Ethereum hasn't "abandoned users" the entire ecosystem is working to scale it, and L2s will deliver capacity in the meantime, i encourage users to use whichever chains they wish, mindful of key differences but any sufficiently popular fee market chain will eventually hit load

November 21st 2021

81 Retweets761 Likes
Twitter avatar for @PhABCDPhABC @PhABCD
Avalanche blocks will be full as well Itโ€™s really no secret that all chains will eventually be full if they get adopted and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. https://t.co/Z1jh0o4eWh

PhABC @PhABCD

Ethereum blocks will be full. Solana blocks will be full. Arbitrum blocks will be full. Optimism blocks will be full. Polygon blocks willl be full. Starknet blocks will be full. No project is even remotely close to have the throughput needed to serve the world.

November 21st 2021

17 Retweets152 Likes

๐Ÿšจ A NEW CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED ๐Ÿšจ

Twitter avatar for @el33th4xorEmin Gรผn Sirer๐Ÿ”บ @el33th4xor
I keep hearing this: "but but but some day Avalanche will be as slow as Ethereum." No. Avalanche brought us the biggest breakthroughs in consensus and bridging. We will address lesser engineering problems without batting an eyelid.

PhABC @PhABCD

Avalanche blocks will be full as well Itโ€™s really no secret that all chains will eventually be full if they get adopted and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. https://t.co/Z1jh0o4eWh

November 21st 2021

231 Retweets1,490 Likes

And then the team lead of Ethereum joined the fight.

Twitter avatar for @peter_szilagyiPรฉter Szilรกgyi (karalabe.eth) @peter_szilagyi
@el33th4xor I'm sorry our team whose code you use is unable to solve the lesser engineering problems. Unfortunately it seems we're just not good enough. Though then why use our code?

November 21st 2021

23 Retweets458 Likes

Avalancheโ€™s co-founder was quick to show his respect, taking the diplomatic approach.

Twitter avatar for @el33th4xorEmin Gรผn Sirer๐Ÿ”บ @el33th4xor
@peter_szilagyi Pรฉter, my respect for you and your work is without equal, and both you and the world knows this very well. The EVM's scalability problems go far beyond what any relatively small team can solve on their own. They require a holistic approach.

November 21st 2021

5 Retweets126 Likes

Kevin, who helped build Avalanche, showed how you can come to your own conclusions regarding the layer 1โ€™s decentralisation.

Twitter avatar for @kevinsekniqi./kevinsekniqi ๐Ÿ”บ good vibes only @kevinsekniqi
1/ While I'm supportive of cryptographically secure L2s, the current L2 narrative is very confusing to me. It hinges on the misconception that only the Eth mainnet L1 is "decentralized". If you're concerned about decentralization ability of Avalanche, you can test yourself ๐Ÿ‘‡

November 21st 2021

98 Retweets466 Likes

Tim from the Ethereum team quote tweeted an earlier Zhu tweet, who showed his support for EIP 1559, having just arguably criticised it.

Twitter avatar for @TimBeikoTim Beiko | timbeiko.eth ๐Ÿต @TimBeiko
Lots of thoughts on the conversations this weekend, and while I think there is a charitable interpretation to some of the criticisms, let me start by saying it's pretty rich to criticize people for "jerking off and watching the burn" when well....

Zhu Su ๐Ÿ”บ @zhusu

ฮžIP - 1559, ฮžTH to 9551 $ETH

November 21st 2021

121 Retweets798 Likes

Itโ€™s important to note the respect for Avalancheโ€™s consensus layer, but Tim questions whether they have an answer to the state related problems Ethereum is suffering from.

Twitter avatar for @TimBeikoTim Beiko | timbeiko.eth ๐Ÿต @TimBeiko
@benczheng AIUI AVAX has genuine innovation at the consensus layer but basically still uses Geth for anything state related, which is where most of Ethereum's scaling woes come from. I also don't think they've submitted any noteworthy improvement back.

November 21st 2021

11 Likes

Last take on the subject. High $ETH gas fees are net positive for everyone?

Twitter avatar for @defitimesDeFi Times @defitimes
Unpopular opinion: The ETH gas fee debate is net positive for BOTH Ethereum and other L1s. Good for ETH: The pressure on ETH will bring us closer to the merge Good for L1s: People will switch to $AVAX, $ATOM, etc.

November 22nd 2021

1 Retweet16 Likes

Worried about the ETH price amidst all of the FUD? Well, the ETH price action tends to respond well to record breaking FUD. Refer back to the price from December 2019.

Twitter avatar for @iamDCinvestorDCinvฮžstor @iamDCinvestor
i shit you not, the last time ETH FUD was this bad was December 2019 i remember it like it was yesterday

November 21st 2021

20 Retweets744 Likes

Educate yourself

If you are looking for further education on the blockchain scalability. This is an essential thread from CLG.

Twitter avatar for @ChainLinkGodChainLinkGod.eth 2.0 @ChainLinkGod
1/ A thread on blockchain scalability, decentralization, throughput, gas, and modular blockchains

November 21st 2021

299 Retweets1,026 Likes

Chris from A16z shows how demand always outpaces supply when it comes to important computing resources.

Twitter avatar for @cdixonChris Dixon @cdixon
The myth of "ETH killers" โ€” why demand for blockchains will always outpace supply ๐Ÿงต

November 21st 2021

1,029 Retweets4,348 Likes

Meanwhile in Solana land:

Twitter avatar for @gainzxbtgainzy @gainzxbt
somewhere out there sam is playing a game of chess by himself and he just moved a piece after su zhu tweeted and muttered โ€œjust as i predictedโ€ .. with a banner of solana hanging overhead

November 21st 2021

52 Retweets1,133 Likes

And thatโ€™s your alpha.

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